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States Consider Ban On Powdered Alcohol

States Consider Ban On Powdered Alcohol


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A powdered alcohol ban is advancing in Colorado, although the product has not yet been approved for consumption by the federal government.

The Colorado's senate voted 28-7 Monday for a bill to ban the sale of a product called Palcohol -- a powder to which water is added for the equivalent of a shot of vodka or rum. Colorado sponsors of a bill insist the ban is more of a “time-out” to figure out how to regulate a product that doesn’t exist yet. The ban would automatically go away if federal regulators approve powdered alcohol.

This comes as several other states are at work on legislation to ban the product before it hits the shelves, including Iowa and Ohio. In Rhode Island, a senate committee is also scheduled to consider a couple of bills that would ban the substance.

Critics of powdered alcohol are concerned about the safety of the product and the potential for abuse. On their web site, the makers of Palcohol say "there is not one shred of evidence that it will be used or abused any differently than liquid alcohol."

In 2014, Palcohol received initial approval from the federal Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau to market their packets of flavored, powdered alcohol. But the approval was quickly rescinded and called an “error.”

The Associated Press contributed to this report.


States consider ban on powdered alcohol

A powdered alcohol ban is advancing in Colorado, although the product has not yet been approved for consumption by the federal government.

The Colorado's senate voted 28-7 Monday for a bill to ban the sale of a product called Palcohol -- a powder to which water is added for the equivalent of a shot of vodka or rum. Colorado sponsors of a bill insist the ban is more of a “time-out” to figure out how to regulate a product that doesn’t exist yet. The ban would automatically go away if federal regulators approve powdered alcohol.

This comes as several other states are at work on legislation to ban the product before it hits the shelves, including Iowa and Ohio. In Rhode Island, a senate committee is also scheduled to consider a couple of bills that would ban the substance.

Critics of powdered alcohol are concerned about the safety of the product and the potential for abuse. On their web site, the makers of Palcohol say "there is not one shred of evidence that it will be used or abused any differently than liquid alcohol."

In 2014, Palcohol received initial approval from the federal Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau to market their packets of flavored, powdered alcohol. But the approval was quickly rescinded and called an “error.”


Powdered Alcohol Preemptively Banned in 31 States

Powdered alcohol, arguably a very bad idea, has been banned in a majority of U.S. states before ever even hitting the market. A press release from industry watchdog group Alcohol Justice says "31 states have now legislated or regulated complete bans on powdered alcohol."

It looks like California is next in line to ban the substance two bills are currently being ushered through the state legislative process, with 113 out of 120 state lawmakers voting in favor of the ban. Nine other states also have bans pending, and o nly three states currently allow the sale of powdered alcohol (Texas, Colorado, and Arizona).

The product, manufactured under the name Palcohol, has been highly controversial since it was first announced in 2014. The product, which — theoretically, at least — comes in rum and vodka forms as well as in mixed drink flavors like Cosmopolitan and Lemon Drop, is intended to be mixed with water for an instant cocktail, but many worry that the product will spur a new underage drinking craze. Palcohol was approved for sale by the U.S. Alcohol & Tobacco Tax & Trade Bureau (TTB) last March, but it has yet to make it to store shelves: Palcohol's website currently says, "We will be working on getting the production facility up and running. It will take a while but hopefully it will be available soon."

Palcohol also accuses lawmakers of moving to ban its product without being fully informed, writing on its website, "A proposed ban of powdered alcohol in other states is denying millions of responsible adults and hundreds of businesses a chance to use this legal, safe and revolutionary new product that has applications in medicine, energy, hospitality, the military, manufacturing, etc. as well as reducing the carbon footprint by being so much lighter to ship than liquid alcohol."

An early version of Palcohol's website suggested the substance could be snorted, though the makers soon removed that verbiage and bulked up the product so users would have to put a massive quantity up their nose to achieve the desired intoxication effect. It also suggested Palcohol would make it easy to sneak alcohol into venues serving overpriced drinks, though the website now suggests that is "not true."


Half the States Have Joined the ‘Powdered Alcohol Prohibition’

The “powdered alcohol prohibition” rose up quickly. Before 2014, according to the bipartisan National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL), just two states had existing statutes that would affect the sale of powdered alcohol products. Alaska had a law banning the sale of any powdered form of alcohol which contained more than 76 percent alcohol by volume. And Delaware included powders and crystals among the concentrated alcoholic beverages coming under its existing alcohol statutes. Then, NCSL says, Louisiana, South Carolina and Vermont joined Alaska in banning the sale of most powdered alcohol. Michigan passed legislation that includes powdered alcohol with one-half percent or more by volume as falling within the state’s definition of “alcoholic liquor.” Then came 2015, when 89 bills on powdered alcohol were introduced in 40 states, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico. By August, NCSL says that 25 states have banned powdered alcohol. Ironically, that’s the same number of states that some say will soon consider making recreational marijuana legal. The current powdered alcohol prohibition covers Alabama, Alaska, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana, Maine, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia and Washington state. Maryland and Minnesota both enacted a one-year moratorium, and Colorado, Delaware, Michigan and New Mexico have added powdered alcohol into their definitions for alcohol under existing statues. What happened between 2014 and 2015 to cause so many states to ban something that was not on their radar just a year earlier? The U.S. Treasury Department’s Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau approved “Palcohol,” a powdered alcohol product that is the brainchild of a Phoenix entrepreneur. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) also found the non-alcohol ingredients in “Palcohol” are typical of those found in many processed foods. FDA has no regulatory authority over alcoholic products. Mark Phillips, the inventor of “Palcohol” and his business, known as Lipsmark LLC, have depicted his creation as a “niche” product for use when a powdered product might be preferred over lugging along liquid booze. “When I hike, kayak, backpack (or) whatever, I like to have a drink when I reach my destination,” Phillips explains. “Carrying liquid alcohol and mixers in bottles to make a margarita, for example, was totally impractical.” While losing half the country to the sale of his product in less than year, Phillips did persuade Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey to veto the bill that would have prevented sale of “Palcohol” in the state where it’s likely to be manufactured. During the past few months, Phillips has stayed busy knocking down hysteria about his product. Nowhere has that been more so than in New York, where Gov. Andrew Cuomo has said, “This dangerous product is a public health disaster waiting to happen.” And Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY) has called for a federal ban for the product he refers to as “Kool-Aid for underage drinking.” Sales of powdered alcohol would be limited to those of legal age, making it no more available to minors than beer, wine and liquid alcohol is right now. Phillips insists “Palcohol” is not some kind of super concentrate, but simply one shot of alcohol in a powdered form. The 40-state rush to look at bans on powdered alcohol has raised some eyebrows. Taxpayer-funded anti-drug and anti-alcohol organizations that exist in every state have been natural allies for such bills. However, some say that major brewers and distillers might be quietly behind the “powder prohibition.” And it’s not over. The Montana Department of Revenue plans to hold a public hearing Sept. 21 on a rule to ban alcohol in powdered and crystalline forms. (Food Safety News wanted to know if “Palcohol” will be manufactured by late summer as planned and whether half the states and foreign markets will be enough of a starter market for the product. However, Phillips did not respond to our invitation to comment.)


States Move to Ban Powdered Alcohol Before It Hits the Market

Lawmakers in several states want to ban a new powdered alcohol product before it’s even available on the market. “Palcohol” is the brand name for the new powdered alcohol that, when mixed with water, becomes a cosmopolitan, mojito, margarita or lemon drop cocktail. It’s the invention of Arizona entrepreneur Mark Phillips, whose company hopes to hit the market by spring. Last spring, the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, an arm of the U.S. Treasury Department, approved “Palcohol” and then rescinded its approval over labeling issues. Phillips’ company, called Lipsmark, hopes to overcome that hurdle shortly. State bans may be harder to overcome. Powdered alcohol bans have been introduced in rapid order in states as varied as Colorado, Nebraska, Utah and Wisconsin. The actual number of states that may consider banning the product won’t be known until the deadlines for new bills are reached, but the early trend is clear. Wisconsin State Sen. Tim Carpenter (D-Milwaukee) introduced a bill that he thinks makes his state at least the ninth to actively consider a ban on “Palcohol” before it ever reaches consumers. “The potential for abuse outweighs quite heavily the need for that type of product,” Carpenter said. “It would just make life a lot less complicated if we just didn’t go there.” Phillips sees his mix-with-water instant cocktails as a “niche” product for adults who hike, bike, camp, kayak or climb rocks, and who would like to be able to pull a cocktail out of their kit bag at the end of the day but have not been able to do so because of the weight that is usually involved. Ban bill sponsors, however, are expressing concerns about how the powdered alcohol product might be “snorted” or “sneaked into” venues closed to alcohol, possibly to the underaged. Phillips doubts that snorting powdered alcohol will ever catch on for two reasons: 1.) It hurts and burns to snort it, and 2.) It’s a slow method of inebriation as it would take a hour or more to snort one packet. As for sneaking them into a closed venue, the “Palcohol” packages are larger than mini bottles used by airlines, which are also readily available at most liquor stores. Phillips has said he just wants his product “approved, taxed, and regulated” like the others. But state legislatures from both major political parties are jumping on bills to ban powdered alcohol, mostly on the argument that the new product will increase underage drinking. A spokesman for the Colorado County Sheriffs Association has come out for a ban bill, saying that powdered alcohol “‘doesn’t have any place in our society.” “Palcohol” will come in a “V” powder made from premium vodka and an “R” powder made from premium Puerto Rican rum. They can be used with both mixers and water. The calorie content will be 80 calories per packet, not counting whatever mixers might be added to it. If it gains federal approval, the powdered alcohol product will be subject to all the same state laws that govern the sale and possession of hard booze in all its liquid forms. Patents for powdered alcohol in the U.S. were first filed as early as 1960. Two similar products, Germany’s Subyou and Booz2Go from the Netherlands, are sold in Europe.


Powdered Alcohol? States to Ban Before it Even Hits Market

Could we soon be ingesting powder infused with alcohol? Such a product indeed exists, though it may not so easily be available at your social gatherings. Lawmakers in several states want to ban the new powdered alcohol product before it even hits the market.
Created by Arizona entrepreneur Mark Phillips“Palcohol” is the brand name for a new powdered alcohol. Unlike other products that are simply powder and then need alcohol added, this powder is already alcoholic. When mixed with water, it could become a cosmopolitan, mojito, margarita, or lemon drop cocktail.
While it isn’t clear where the powdered alcohol will be able to be purchased, states are already preemptively banning the new product in fear of it being heavily abused. Not only could children get ahold of yet another substance, but it would give people another ‘another way to mistreat their bodies.’ What’s more, it could be abused in the form of being snorted, a fear voiced by multiple individuals.

“The potential for abuse outweighs quite heavily the need for that type of product,” Carpenter said. “It would just make life a lot less complicated if we just didn’t go there.”


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The states. ( Score: 5, Informative)

The states are: Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont and Virginia

Not sure why this couldn't be in the summary.

Re:The states. ( Score: 4, Funny)

"The states are: Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont and Virginia

Not sure why this couldn't be in the summary."

Re:The states. ( Score: 5, Funny)

"The states are: Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont and Virginia

Not sure why this couldn't be in the summary."

Why state the states are obviously unstated?

Re: ( Score: 3)

Why state the states are obviously unstated?

Actually, I don't think Alaska is at all obvious, with its relative "frontier" attitude.

Re:The states. ( Score: 5, Informative)

Actually, I don't think Alaska is at all obvious, with its relative "frontier" attitude.

Alaska actually has the most restrictive alcohol purchase and consumption laws in the US outside certain areas of the Deep South. There are 96 communities in Alaska that prohibit sale of alcohol, and 34 of those even ban its possession [thenorthernlight.org]. This is because in much of Alaska, there is f--k all to do except drink, and alcohol abuse is endemic enough already, even without the legal restrictions. The state even has a law, which is actually enforced [go.com] that makes it a crime to be drunk in a bar. (Yeah, I know.) So while you might think that Alaska would be a "gubmint keep your hands off my guns and booze" state, it turns out to just be a "hands off my guns" state.

Re: ( Score: 3)

Wait a minute. Louisiana? The state that has drive-through daiquiri bars [onesixtyk.com] ?

Driving with a Big-Gulp sized Hurricane in your lap (no straw of course, *wink* *wink*), that's OK, but powdered alcohol is irresponsible?

Re: ( Score: 2)

Re: ( Score: 3)

The Big-Gulp sized Hurricane Retailers association has a very strong political presence in Louisiana, and do not like the idea of competition for cheap over-sweetened high alcohol beverages.

Re: ( Score: 3)

Re:The states. ( Score: 5, Informative)

Wait a minute. Louisiana? The state that has drive-through daiquiri bars [onesixtyk.com] ?

Driving with a Big-Gulp sized Hurricane in your lap (no straw of course, *wink* *wink*), that's OK, but powdered alcohol is irresponsible?

Alaska is still trying to figure out how this ever got on the voting ballot.

Most of them were stoned out of their mind and kept thinking how this shit would be really good sprinkled on Taco Bell right about now.

The big issue is Alaska is dry / damp towns [state.ak.us]. There are a number of Native American villages that ban alcohol or limit it very rigorously. Alcoholism is an enormous issue for Native Americans (and, truth be told, the rest of us) and the smaller villages have adopted this form of control. Little tiny one ounce packets would be ridiculously easy to smuggle in. Of course, this is a fool's errand in a sense - you can rarely stop a social problem using prohibition, but the communities feel that it helps.

The rest of us are too stoned and confused to notice much (Where'd the snow go?).

Re:The states. ( Score: 4, Insightful)

Little tiny one ounce packets would be ridiculously easy to smuggle in.

True of both powdered and liquid forms.

Re: ( Score: 3)

Little tiny one ounce packets would be ridiculously easy to smuggle in.

True of both powdered and liquid forms.

Sounds like powered alcohol has greater volume than liquid alcohol, so it's even harder to smuggle:

The volume of a shot of powdered alcohol is 4X greater than the volume of a shot of liquid alcohol so liquid alcohol is much easier to conceal.

Sure, you could put the powder into a canister labeled "flour" and smuggle it in that way, but you could also put everclear alcohol into a bottle labeled "water".

Re:The states. ( Score: 5, Funny)

Re: ( Score: 3)

You people are hilarious.
Government control on [arbitrary level] == TYRANNY
Government control on [slightly lower arbitrary level] == THE WAY IT IS AND WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE

Just accept that some things should be dealt with collectively, regardless of the exact level.
It is always a valid discussion at what level certain executive and legislative decisions should be made, but don't pretend that shifting them a level up or down changes anything meaningful in the appraisal of 'small

Re: ( Score: 3)

Firstly: Nice reasoning there, asshole. Progressives championed the Prohibition. Whoopty-fucking-doo. That completely and definitively proves that 'small government' Conservatives don't want to regulate more than they claim. Because fuck logic.
(It's called a 'tu quoque', a fallacy most commonly committed on school playgrounds)

I'll explain it to you: even if 'Progressives' were or are the evilest, nastiest scum-sucking Nazi bastards that have ever existed, that says nothing about conservative people.

Re: ( Score: 3)

Pepper ( Score: 2)

"They can snort black pepper. Do you ban black pepper?"

Oh, crap, you know they're going to try now.

Re: ( Score: 2)

Still better than sniffing cat urine.

Re: ( Score: 3)

Snort? The most effective way to get your kick is to do your black pepper in enema or rectal suppository form.

Yes, kids, DO try this at home!

Re: ( Score: 2)

Meaning, certain dumb people will try snorting, and certain other dumb people will try banning.

Not Freeze Dried! ( Score: 5, Informative)

Re:Not Freeze Dried! ( Score: 4, Informative)

Re: ( Score: 3)

Here's a thought: anyone know a good way to extract ammonia from ethanol? Or would it degas on its own? Because if so one could use the reaction:

NH2COOC2H5 (ethyl carbamate) + H2O (water) -> CH3CH2OH (ethanol) + NH3 (ammonia) + CO2 (carbon dioxide)

If you can meet that spec then this seems to meet all requirements:

1) Ethyl carbamate is a solid crystalline powder at normal conditions. It doesn't melt until 46C.
2) While it's a "suspected carcinogen", it's already found normally in alcoholic beverages, so if

Re: ( Score: 2, Interesting)

Oh hey, the reaction is endothermic: it'll generate chilled alcohol for you! Even better:)

Hmm, wonder if it needs a catalyst.

One Dimension ( Score: 3)

but since when does anyone measure density in mass/length units?

That's clear evidence of one dimensional thinking.-)

Re: ( Score: 2)

What's really behind this hue and cry? ( Score: 5, Interesting)

I wonder how much of this objection has nothing to do with the vasty overstated risks but instead is of a commercial nature. Alcoholic beverages are extremely expensive in a lot of places (stadiums, bars, restaurants, events) and sneaking your own in is inconvenient or impossible.

I woner if the real opponents of this aren't people who make money charging $10 for cocktails to captive audiences. How much money do they stand to lose when people start bringing a half-dozen packets to the big game?

How is the drinking control regime threatened when you can't restrict alcohol because of its bulk and liquid nature?

Some idiots will no doubt overconsume it, but they are probably the same idiots that do it now.

Re: ( Score: 3)

I woner if the real opponents of this aren't people who make money charging $10 for cocktails to captive audiences. How much money do they stand to lose when people start bringing a half-dozen packets to the big game?

While this may be an issue, I'm not sure it's a significant one.

If you can afford to blow a couple hundred bucks for a seat in the stadium, I doubt an extra twenty or so for booze is going to be a show-stopper.

Where I see an issue is minors, who can't buy the overpriced booze at the show/conc

Re: ( Score: 3)

That said commercial interests are often combined intricately with religious desires to dictate how people live. In many states alcohol sales are overly regulated to insure that states and the corrupt religious organization that engage with them in defrauding the public of funds through the regula

For hiking/camping? Doubt it. ( Score: 2)

One packet of Palcohol equals one shot with each packet weighing 1 ounce and turning into liquid when mixed with 6 ounces of water

Instead of carrying seven ounces for one unit of alcohol why not just bring grain alcohol and get 14 units for the same weight?

Re: ( Score: 2)

Better weight ratio but it's awkward to haul around. It seems to leak easier than water (made obvious by that alcohol smell it gets on stuff) ), and you have to haul around bulky partly-empty containers.

I've done it before, but it'd be nice to have a powder. That said, your point is spot on - you get a lot of bang for your weight-buck with concentrated liquid alcohol, not so much with this adsorbed stuff.

Re: ( Score: 3)

Package 80 proof in juice box bags. Sell it at outdoor supply stores. Not your responsibility if people smuggle it into games/movies/the Opera/schools.

I knew kids who injected Vodka into oranges to eat at lunch. Couldn't really get a buzz that way. More about getting away with something.

Re: ( Score: 2)

Re: ( Score: 2)

Powdered alcohol is stupid. ( Score: 5, Insightful)

Anyone that thinks this stuff makes any sense at all is merely ignorant.

Here is the thing, alcohol is a liquid. The most compact state for alcohol to be in is a liquid. The only way to have powdered alcohol without adding a lot of filler to it that will make it take up MORE space and more weight would be to freeze it and then smash up the frozen alcohol into a powder and then keep that at freezing temperatures.

Sound practical? Me neither.

What they're obviously doing is adding a chemical, probably a sugar of some description, and allowing that substance to absorb the alcohol.

while you CAN do that, why would you want to do that? It will take up MORE space and weigh MORE per unit of weight or volume.

So what the fuck is the point? People keep talking about powdered alcohol like people are going to be able to compress 2 liter vodka bottles into little pouches where you just add water and you get a strong alcoholic drink.

You won't though. unless you have something like 10 liters of powder to dissolve in the water.

the amount of alcohol you'll actually be able to store in any sugar crystal going to be miniscule. And sugar molecules are often quite large. so you're talking about a lot of mass invested into containing a very small amount of alcohol. Why?

Get yourself some 200 proof booze, put it in a flask, and if you want drink, then mix that with some amount of water because you really don't want to drink 200 proof booze straight unless you're completely crazy.

Re: ( Score: 3)

lighten up, Francis. The product is a compact way to carry a cocktail, it takes less space than the cocktail. There are other concentrated cocktail mixes at your local liquor store, yes?

So settle down, or we'll have to send a jungle ranger to shoot you in the butt with a tranq dart.

Re: ( Score: 2)

Have you ever hiked long distances with a bottle of vodka? I have. It's not the vodka that's the PITA, it's the bottle.

While I'm still not too keen on this product, let's not pretend that there's no reasons for preferring a powder to liquids even at the cost of some disadvantages.

Re: ( Score: 2)

Go to REI, get yourself a flexible water bag. those camel packs or whatever. And then put your booze in that.

There clearly isn't enough rat poison in the municipal water system.

You're saying you have to use the liquor store bottle?

I think I'm having a stroke. I smell toast. yep. and I'm blind in one eye now. Thanks.

Re: ( Score: 3)

1. Alcohol leaks easier than water. At least that's been my experience with it.

2. Flexible water bottles are not rated for everclear. Even if it didn't physically and visibly dissolve the seals in front of you, I'd still have concerns over it leaching chemicals out of the plastic. Moreso than with a rigid bottle, as flexible plastics generally contain plasticizers, many of which have been linked to a variety of health issues. Some flexible water containers are made of PVC, which has very bad ethanol compati

Re: ( Score: 3)

First off, what the heck is going wrong in your life that makes you feel the need to tell strangers "Suck it" and "you alcoholiic piece of shit" when talking about plastics? Even without knowing what it is, I honestly feel sorry and am worried for you.

Secondly, we're not talking about plastic milk jugs. You mentioned camelback water pouches. They're quite clearly not the same thing - one is highly rigid, the other is highly flexible. Camelback water pouches are not all made the same. Search on the net and y

Re: ( Score: 3)

Depends. HDPE plastic is okay at the very least. There might be some others.

If you're determined to be obnoxious on the subject, get a flask. I assume a flask can handle high proof alcohol and that was the traditional method for alcoholics to take their hooch with them on the go. I don't see why that doesn't still work.

Also, this just has to be passed around so everyone gets this:

""But a packet of Palcohol is much harder to conceal" than liquid alcohol, the company making Palcohol says on its website. A pac

Re: ( Score: 3)

Powders are a bit easier to package. That said, there is nothing to prevent our dashing entrepreneur from making Margaritas-in-a-bag, especially for camping or other weight / volume challenged activities. A one ounce square foil pack of Everclear. Hmmm. Food / Drug / Disinfectant / Cleaner / Industrial solvent. This could be more ground breaking than those foil packs of WD-40.

Re: ( Score: 2)

Actually, might not be a bad idea. Might. Small individually factory-sealed liquid packages would reduce the leak risk that large bottles have due to not requiring a resealable cap. But rather than a leak risk, I'd worry about them being an outright rupture risk. foil is not particularly strong. If you have a foil pack of pop tarts rupture, no big deal, but if you have a foil pack of everclear rupture, it's going to leave some of your stuff wet and smelling like alcohol at best - at worst it'll ruin elec

Re:Powdered alcohol is stupid. ( Score: 5, Insightful)

A bottle of vodka is only

30% alcohol by weight, so if you can obtain water from another source (pump or purifier) then it is lighter to carry the alcohol powdered (the maltodextrin is mixed with ethanol 1:1 by weight).

The waste in hiking with alcohol is that the water is tied up in vodka instead of being able to be added later. You'd be less likely to have an aneurism over this if you wouldn't just make up numbers and then operate as if they were true.

Re: ( Score: 3)

"Proof" is a measure of the volume of alcohol in a volume of water, as adjusted for the density of the mixture. Your measure of "filler to alcohol ratio", using whatever units you're pulling out of your ass to express that, has nothing to do with proof. Alcohol proof isn't even a relevant way to describe powdered alcohol.

There are many benefits to using a solid vs a liquid that have nothing to do with weight or volume. Solids are more easily handled than liquids, absorbed ethanol doesn't evaporate as quickl

Re: ( Score: 2)

Powders have a lot of advantages over liquids when transporting them. Mostly due to the containers required and their reaction to shock, friction and pressure.

Re: ( Score: 2)

Quote the part of my post where I said it should be banned, please.

Yeah, I never said it should be banned. I would not ban powdered alcohol for two reasons:

1. I don't believe in banning things that people intentionally want in their bodies. I am in favor of legalizing all drugs, disbanding the DEA, and making the D part of the FDA voluntary. Because if I want to take a given perscription drug, why do I need to get the doctor's permission to take it? If I know what is wrong with me, and I know what drug I ne

Politicians need a basic math test ( Score: 2)

Since the powder is 50% abweight and everclear is 96% abweight, maybe they should ban the latter first?

The only 'advantage' -- and I say it in quotes, since it won't always be an advantage -- is that the powder is dry (ish).

Re: ( Score: 2)

Gentlemen, start your engines . ( Score: 2)

Stay home and drink ( Score: 2)

The problem is not the weight of the liquid alcohol. The problem is the "hike, backpack or whatever". Anyplace where carrying a fifth is too difficult is not worth going to.

I mean, how good can freeze-dried Ardbeg Uigeadail taste, anyway?

Re: ( Score: 2)

Next they'll try to ban my 2x10oz 'binoculars'.

Follow the money. ( Score: 2)

Hmm. the vast majority of the pro-powdered-alcohol comments in the article come from the inventor himself -- who stands to make a lot of money if this is legal everywhere. And the sole, somewhat-pro, comment by an M.D. was pretty lukewarm about the stuff. IMHO, it's a solution looking for a problem. Celebrations in the woods? Pretty lame argument in favor.

Re: ( Score: 3)

Maybe 'cause the only ones who feel anything but "meh" about it is the inventor and overprotective soccer moms?

Seen on a Hat ( Score: 2)

DAMM - Drunks Against Mad Mothers

In all seriousness, I'm against irresponsible/dangerous conduct such as drunk or impaired driving. That said, the argument made by the idiot from MADD is reactionary and illogical.

Re: ( Score: 3)

MADD is the modern day Women's Christian Temperance Union: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W. [wikipedia.org]

Those are the folks who brought Prohibition to the US, with disastrous consequences. They are just flexing their muscles a bit. After they successful ban powdered alcohol everywhere, they will start going after other fringe alcohol products, like Jello-shots, alco-pops or whatever those damn kids on my lawn are drinking these days.

You don't ban something. ( Score: 2)

"You don't ban something because a few irresponsible people use it improperly"

Of course not. unless it's any psychoactive substance or plant that isn't alcohol.

Concentrated. ( Score: 2)

I looked through the FAQs and watched the 15 min video, nothing is being said if it is possible to get 2 or more bags of this stuff and dissolve it in the same amount of water that is normally used for one packet I believe he said it's about 5 ounces of liquid. Or maybe taking 5 ounces of vodka and dissolving the vodka powder in that. What about swallowing the stuff in powder form? How does the re-absorption of liquid affect your insides or does the various concentrations of alcohol as it goes through a

Re: ( Score: 2)

"but when has pre-adult portion of our society ever been smart when it comes to drugs?"

how about the post adult? A large segment of the population is not smart their entire life. 2 out of every 5 people you meet has an IQ below 100. and 3 out of 5 have a very poor "common sense" ability.

I have friends that will lick a light socket when drunk, and they are fortune 500 management.

If you're concerned your kids might drink ( Score: 5, Insightful)

Talk with them. It's YOUR kids. Don't put the burden of raising your kids on society!

Dear Government. ( Score: 3)

You can't protect stupid people from acting stupid.

In fact, want to make the world a better place? pass laws that make it impossible for someone stupid, that did something stupid, from using the legal system to sue anyone for their act of stupid.

I personally wish we allowed more of the stupid people to kill themselves, it would help the humanity gene pool immensely.

Re: ( Score: 2)

"Super strong alcohol" is already legally sold ( Score: 2)

I'm told Senor Frogs uses it for margaritas. I am unable to tell you whether it is effective, as I have no memories of my attempted scientific tests of its potency.

Life imitating art ( Score: 3)

Alcoholic candy. (Spoiler alert?) And their version was going to be banned as well.

It's pretty good if you like screwball comedies.

Uhh. ( Score: 3)

You don't ban something because a few irresponsible people use it improperly," says Phillips. "They can snort black pepper. Do you ban black pepper?"

Actually we ban every single psychologically active substance *except* alcohol and tobacco for precisely that reason, those two being the lucky winners because historically the few irresponsible ones misusing other things were typically not the white male property owners responsible for determining whose favorite substance was allowed.

Black Pepper ( Score: 3)

So. how good is snorting black pepper anyway? I might give that a go tonight.

Mad at MADD ( Score: 4, Informative)

Back in the 80's, MADD was formed with the purpose of blackmailing all the states into banning alchohol sales to anyone under 21. This of course includes a good 3 years of actual voters, but fuck them, there are more over 21 than under, so we can just outvote them! Yes folks, a portion of the electorate can gang up on another portion and take their rights away. MADD has shown us the way. They accomplished this by getting Congress to threaten to take away their highway funds unless they complied. (BTW: Extra credit goes to Louisiana here for being about the last state to give in).

They got to my state just at the perfect time that the "grandfathering" of the new law assured people 1 year older than me could legally drink for 3 years while I could not. I didn't even like alcohol, but this completely pissed me off. 30 years later, and I still hold a grudge. I hate MADD with the heat of 1000 suns. Anything they are against, I'm automatically for. In 30 years, that rule has held me in good stead.

Re:Astronaut-booze ( Score: 5, Informative)

It's not actually a bad idea. I've taken alcohol backpacking before, but it's as he mentions, it's somewhat impractical, esp. stopping links and carrying around big containers that will average being half empty, which you can't refill with their target contents on the way like you can with water bottles. And in my experience it usually leaks sooner or later. And since it only makes sense to carry the most concentrated stuff you can buy. yeah.

Concentrated alcohol is great stuff to be with - and not just for "getting drunk in the woods". Or even the social aspect - being out in the middle of nowhere with alcohol and meeting up with other travelers can make you pretty popular) But it's also 7 calories per gram - only fat is higher, at 9, while carbs and proteins are 4, so it's a nice weight ratio, and it never spoils. It doubles as a disinfectant, both for first aid, and for water. And it can be burned as a stove fuel.

That said, I don't know how many of the benefits would carry over to this powdered variety. The sorbent is going to significantly reduce weight per calorie, you probably can no longer burn it as stove fuel at any dilution, etc.

Re:Astronaut-booze ( Score: 4, Interesting)

Re:Astronaut-booze ( Score: 5, Funny)

Two thermoses of Everclear!

Re:Astronaut-booze ( Score: 5, Insightful)

I really don't understand why "powdered alcohol" is a better solution than carrying grain alcohol. "Powdered alcohol" isn't alcohol somehow transformed into a powder, but ordinary liquid alcohol absorbed/encapsulated in a carrier powder. So you don't save weight over the equivalent amount of Everclear, you add it.

Re: ( Score: 2)

Re: ( Score: 3)

if you want to carry this, you end up carrying more weight. you need to carry this, the binder and water too. freeze dried is sort of a lie, that's not really what was done to it.

just carrying margarita mixer powder and vodka would get you easier and with less to carry.

basically the only advantage to palcohol is potentially eating it, because there is no weight saving. it's not like pure spirits get any lighter, they're already pure(everclear). vodka is pure with water and the water you need to carry to hi

Re: ( Score: 2)

Yes, you point out the facts of this namely that typical strong alcohol at 70 proof is 35% ethanol. The balance is mostly water. This product is about that ratio of ethanol to some sorbent material that appears to go into solution if you add water.

If the legislature of those states who are alarmed just did a little homework, they would realize that this is much ado about nothing.

Re: ( Score: 3)

If you want to recreate an American beer, yes.

Re: ( Score: 2)

Do the math: that is stupid! ( Score: 5, Informative)

100g of powder with 25cl (250ml) of water gives you 4.8%. i.e.: the content of a small can of a rather weak beer (by European standard).

Which is 12ml of pure ethanol (less than a 2cl shot). Which weights

10g. So you need to transport a power 10x as heavy as the ethanol it self. It one of the least efficient form for transporting ethanol. And is therefore COMPLETELY STUPID.

You're better off transporting a small flask vial of pure ethanol. For reference to another item that you would probably be carrying in your backpack: an AA battery is

8cm^3, so you need the same volume as about 1 and a half battery of pure ethanol to mix your weak-beer-like beverage small can. So the actual volume is negligible.

Whereas if you pack them with

90mg of extra powdered sugar cyclic polymer, you'll probably need a space around roughly

130cm^3 - that's about the volume of 1 and half deck of cards that you need to transport as extra sugar in addition to the ethanol itself, just for the small advantage to keep the ethanol trapped in a powder instead of carrying it in a small plastic liquid container.
(it's an estimation. I don't know the exact density of the specific types of powdered cycle of sugars used in palcohol, I'm doing a rough estimation using starch as a starting point).

You can't beat pure ethanol. It's a liquid. That's as densely as you can pack it at room temperature.
That's the form of pure alcohol, once you remove all the water out of it. Dried alcohol isn't a powder. It's still a liquid (just a liquid that contains no molecule of water, only ethanol). It's not like for example salt nor sugar (salt or sugar diluted in water is a liquid. Dry it, remove all the water and you get powder of NaCl or of glucose. Or crystals of them if you do the drying correctly).
Palcohol is, basically, adding huge sugar cyclic polymer to trap it into a powder. It's a huge waste of space. It's not *concentrated* alcohol (as, I presume, all the people who buy into these stupidity are thinking - by analogy of sugar or salt). It's alcohol cut with heavy space consuming sugar.

The only thing is that, getting food-grade ethanol (that is pure ethanol, not degraded ethanol) at pure concentration without a drop of water inside is heavily regulated in most countries (to avoid that people use it to make their own housemade liquor and sell these without a proper license).
The sugar-ethanol mix isn't (well in some countries. Sugar and ethanol happens to be regulated in some countries due to alcopops.) so probably some people think it's a handy way to transport alcool without needing to get the necessary license / paper work for pure ethanol ("I want to transport my booze in space convenient matter, not start a liquor factory! The paper work is over kill !") The problem is that even then, packing a water-diluted ethanol solution (strong vodka, etc.) is still more space efficient than the powdered sugar.

As a way to pack alcohol, this poweder is asinine.
As a novelty item, with the funnily simple factor ("Powdered cocktail! Just add water and instant* mojitos. [*- with a much weaker alcohol content than an actual mojito]") yup, maybe. (Works, because most of the other ingredients *can* be packed as solids/powder, and they can complex a bit of ethanol, specially the sugars).
But it's nothing more than an adult themed cousin of Sherbet-powder to be drank after adding water.


Powdered Alcohol

1 National Alcohol Beverage Control Association (NABCA). “Powdered Alcohol: An Encapsulation.” (2014, December). p.1-2. Available at: http://www.nabca.org/assets/Docs/Research/PowderedAlcoholPaper.pdf

2 National Alcohol Beverage Control Association (NABCA). “Powdered Alcohol: An Encapsulation.” (2014, December). p. 1. Available at: http://www.nabca.org/assets/Docs/Research/PowderedAlcoholPaper.pdf

5 Choi, C. (April 21, 2014). Powdered alcohols no longer have label approvals. Available at:http://bigstory.ap.org/article/powdered-alcohols-dont-have-approvals

6 “Palcohol” Powdered Alcohol Wins Federal Approval (March 11, 2015). CBS News. Retrieved from:http://www.cbsnews.com/ news/palcohol-powdered-alcohol-wins-federal-approval/

8 Firger, J. (2014, April 23). Palcohol powdered alcohol may present serious health risks, experts say. CBS News. Retrieved from http://cbsnews.com Naimi, T.S. & Mosher, J.F. (2015). Powdered alcohol products: New challenge in an era of needed regulation. JAMA 314(2): 119-120 Wilson, R. (2014, April 30). Lawmakers begin moves to ban powdered alcohol. The Washington Post. Retrieved from http://www.washingtonpost.com

9 National Alcohol Beverage Control Association (NABCA). “Powdered Alcohol: An Encapsulation.” (2014, December). p.1-2. Available at: http://www.nabca.org/assets/Docs/Research/PowderedAlcoholPaper.pdf

10 National Conference of State Legislatures. “Powdered Alcohol 2014 Legislation.” (December 4, 2014). Available at:http://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-commerce/powdered-alcohol-2014-legislation.aspx National Conference of State Legislatures “Powdered Alcohol 2015 Legislation.” (March 11, 2015). Available at: http://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-commerce/powdered-alcohol-2015-legislation.aspx

25 McKinney's Alcoholic Beverage Control Law § 100.

272015 North Dakota Laws Ch. 76 (H.B. 1464).

34 2015 Virginia Laws No. 202 (S.B. 299).

36 MD Code, Art. 2B, § 16-505.3.

38 C.R.S.A. § 12-47-103 4 Del.C. § 101 N.H. Rev. Stat. § 175:1 and N. M. S. A. 1978, § 60-3A-3.

39 Arizona House Bill No. 2057 (introduced 2/17/15) Florida House Bill No. 1247 (introduced 4/16/15) Iowa House Bill No. 494 (introduced 3/4/15) New Mexico House Bill 550 (introduced 2/3/15) Massachusetts House Bill No. 243 (introduced 1/16/15) Missouri House Bill No. 1325 (introduced 3/12/15) Oklahoma Senate Bill No. 720 (introduced 1/23/15) Pennsylvania Senate Bill No. 588 (introduced 3/19/15) and Pennsylvania House Bill No. 847 (introduced 3/25/15) Rhode Island House Bill No. 5189 (introduced 1/21/15 but only banning powdered alcohol for those under the age of 21) and Rhode Island Senate Bill No. 175 (introduced 2/5/15) Wisconsin Senate Bill No. 10 (introduced 1/23/15) and 2015 Wisconsin Assembly Bill No. 72 (introduced 1/23/15) and Wyoming Senate Bill No. 106 (introduced 1/21/15).

40 2015 Washington DC Legislative Bill No. 253 (introduced 6/12/15).

41 Kentucky House Bill 71 (3/24/15) and Kentucky Senate Bill 81 (1/9/15).


Proposed Law Would Ban Powdered Alcohol

Powdered alcohol, a concentrated alcohol product created by Lipsmark, has caused a lot of controversy in just a few short months. In April 2014, the FDA validated Lipsmark’s request for powered alcohol as an FDA-approved substance. Shortly after its approval, the FDA suddenly reversed its decision. Though Lipsmark and its subsidiary Palcohol have re-submitted an application for FDA approval, many have expressed concerns about the safety and future use of this product.

Manufacturer Advertises Many Uses

Powdered alcohol is a concentrated form of alcohol that has a host of flexible uses. Palcohol encourages buyers to use the powdered substance in cooking, during outdoor activities, and while travelling, among other suggested uses. The ease of use and, particularly, the ease of transporting powdered alcohol have led to great concern in the New York State Legislature. The New York Senate passed a proposed law to proactively ban the sale of powdered alcohol in the state, should the substance be re-approved by the FDA in the future.

Senator Joseph Griffo sponsored the Senate bill while Assemblyman Steven Cymbrowitz sponsored the Assembly version. Specifically, the proposed law would “prohibit anyone from selling, offering for sale or providing for consumption, any powdered or crystalline alcoholic product.” Senator Griffo has raised concerns about the transportability of powdered alcohol, stating “There are very serious concerns about the illegal use of powdered alcohol by young people, possibly even bringing it into schools or other events and locations that prohibit alcohol consumption.” New York is not alone in its effort to ban powdered alcohol Alaska, South Carolina, Minnesota and Vermont are all considering similar proposed legislation.

Though New York’s ban focuses solely on powdered alcohol, lawmakers in other states have voiced concerns about edible alcohol. Louisiana’s Legislature recently failed to pass a law that would have allowed ice cream made with more than 10% alcohol. The recent smattering of state laws has largely focused on the ease of transport for powdered alcohol and alcoholic ice cream. Though lawmakers are largely focusing on the potential danger of minors obtaining these products, there is a potential that drivers may more easily imbibe while operating a motor vehicle. Each of the states considering powdered alcohol bans have laws that prohibit intoxicated driving, regardless of the source of alcohol.

DWI is Possible After Consumption of Powdered Alcohol

It appears that powdered alcohol will not be available to New York drivers if the proposed bill banning the substance becomes law. Despite the sudden popularity of such bills in a few states though, most states have yet to seriously address the question. Powdered alcohol has not yet received permanent approval by the FDA, and in the meantime, more and more states will likely consider the potential impact of powdered alcohol for minors, drivers, and recreational use.

Whether the alcohol is in powdered, edible, or in traditional liquid form, a New York driver with a blood alcohol concentration of 0.08% or more may face a DWI. Conviction for a New York DWI can result in jail time, steep fines, and license revocation, among other penalties. If you or a loved one has been charged with a DWI or related offense, contact Nave DWI Defense Attorneys immediately. Let us put our reputation, training, and experience to work for you.

DISCLAIMER: The exclusive purpose of this article is educational and it is not intended as either legal advice or a general solution to any specific legal problem. Corporate offices for Nave DWI Defense Attorneys are located at 432 N. Franklin Street, Suite 80, Syracuse, NY 13204 Telephone No.: 1-866-792-7800. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Attorney Advertising.


Colorado moves to ban powdered alcohol

Colorado lawmakers are to propose a bill to ban powdered alcohol product Palcohol

Palcohol, a powdered substance that when mixed with of water or other liquids creates an alcoholic beverage, has been greeted with a controversial reaction since it was unveiled earlier this year.

The US Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) claimed that approval of the product had been issued “in error” in April this year and creators were told to alter its labelling due to a discrepancy over fill level.

However brand owners stressed that this did not mean Palcohol had not received approval, as it was only its labels with were questioned, adding that the product is safe to use.

Following in the footsteps of Minnesota, Ohio and New York, Colorado lawmakers are now proposing legislation to ban the sale of Palcohol in the state over concerns it will increase underage drinking.

The product has already been banned outright in Alaska, Delaware, South Carolina, Vermont and Louisiana. Republican Representative JoAnn Windholz is now sponsoring a bill to ban powdered alcohol in Colorado.

“I think being proactive and jumping out in front of the problem is probably the right thing to do,” Chris Johnson, executive director of the County Sheriffs of Colorado, told the Guardian.

“It really doesn’t have any place in our society, powdered alcohol. We have enough problems with the liquid kind.”

It is thought that Palcohol will be available in stores across the US from spring 2015.



Comments:

  1. Elimu

    no variants ...

  2. Trypp

    Sometimes Worse Things Happen



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